thegreatgaby said: I agree with this but I’m also kind of disappointed that most depictions of latinos are stereotypically tan with an accent when MANY of are lighter skinned and speak English with American accents. They can make lighter skinned latinos too but don’t.
I can see that, especially as far as accent goes… it seems like maybe a lot of depictions come out of America’s comfort zone of portraying latin@s as like… “exotic”? Hearkening to a certain/particular stereotype/typeset? It’s not like a secret either that there are black latin@s but I can’t even think of the last time I saw one represented in media…
I founf your blog and I saw some posts about Honey lemon from Big hero 6 and people saying she's latina or something? Anyway, I'd just like to say that I'm hispanic, and I grew up in an are where there are a lot of other hispanics-(will be continued)
(2) not all hispancs are/have an accent. My skin(and the skin of other hispanics I know) aren’t that white or whatever but they aren’t all that tan. I don’t have an accent, and anyway I’m just saying its possible she’s hispanic. (end ask)
I definitely agree that not all hispanic people need to look, act, or sound a certain way, as I’ve said in previous posts? (I don’t mean to be combative sounding, I’ve just posted about this so much I don’t know which one you’re responding to)
As far as I know, the only real potential hint that she’s hispanic/latina is coming from her voice actress, and voice isn’t always equivalent to animated race as we’ve seen in the past.
And yeah, for basically any race ever discussed here, there are people who are white skinned/blue eyed/blond haired, there are literally individuals like this in any race.
Discussions of white washing aren’t about saying that any race (or ethnicity, etc) looks a certain way ALL the time, just that it’s questionable when ALL races are constantly more likely to be represented if they have features more commonly associated with white people.
is it just me or are the feminism/feminists tags right now like 1000% people who call themselves antifeminists? When did this happen? Is there a tag people use when they are actually posting stuff relating to feminism?? Gaah
I love how everyone gets mad at Disney for white washing their movies and giving white features to persons of color and Japan is over there like :
Japan dont give two shits if they write their characters as oriental but are designed as if they are white. And no one over there gives a single fuck. They just like the designs and everyone is kumbaya
A) Japanese people don’t agree that they’re “designed as if they are white,” that’s a matter of perception ( you think they are white, because you’ve been inundated with the idea that default character design = white, which isn’t a universal experience. See linked article for more info)
B) oriental? really.
C) way too often people assume that because they’re not aware of a discussion, the discussion never existed. I highly doubt that in a country of 127 million people, no one has ever debated over character designs and race. That sort of logic of “no one over there cares and they all never talk about it, since I never heard of them doing so” reduces a huge group of people to a hive mind for the sake of your argument.
My apologies though if you went to Japan and had extensive conversations about this with people and actually know what you’re talking about, but it sounded like you were talking out of your butt.
I feel like disney "white washes" characters and movies because of the actors and actresses that play the characters. If they don't speak with the correct accent of the character they are playing, then the characters would would be speaking speaking with an American accent while being let's say a. "German" character! I feel likes since the movie is going to be an American made movie shown majorly in america, the characters are typically white, I think disney blindly does this to most movie
A) disagree because many of the movies that immediately leap into my mind are either not set in America (Million Dollar Arm, as I just mentioned) or are set in a semi-America, but not really (Sanfrantokyo with Big Hero 6).
B) movies and tv shows and books are disproportionately white anyway. America might still be “white majority” but it’s not like… that huge of a majority. In 2013, whites (non-hispanic) comprised 63% of the U.S. population. We’re also talking about kids movies (on my blog, that is) and about half of all babies now born in the U.S. are not white.
C) it’s a pretty BS argument anyway, about demographics, since it’s so clearly tailored just to this one specific argument: race. No one ever gives a shit about demographics, or thinks they’re relevant, when it’s not about race. You know who else makes up a huge % of the population? The elderly. Does that mean they should necessarily be 60% of the cast or whatever? IDK.
D) Like racial representation isn’t in a vacuum either, it affects how we see ourselves and others. And that’s something people have to keep in mind. Although elderly people do face discrimination in some ways, no one’s going to not look at your resume because your name “sounds elderly,” but this has been shown in studies to happen if people think your name “sounds black.” And the perception that black=less intelligent and capable is often picked up from media.
E) It’s my opinion that media, then, as a highly influential body, has a responsibilty not to feed you bad shit, just as the cereal company has an obligation not to put deadly toxins in your Fruit Loops. If you don’t think media companies should be held to standards and criticized when they fail, we’ll probably never agree
F) not sure what you’re saying about German characters :S ?
G) the argument that white people need to see white people doing things in order to understand a character’s struggles, emotions, triumphs etc. is a really sad one and if we allow that to enter the stage as an acceptable truth then what’s the point of anything
I'm sorry! I didn't mean to be that vague! I was referring to the idea of white washing and when I said I understood the argument meant that I was understanding the argent of white washing! Lol I'm sorry! I asked the question because I've kinda been reading your entire blog for the last hour lol!
well I’m still a little confused… you’re saying you think white washing exists for a logical reason, or that white washing is a problem?
Okay so… I’ll assume what you’re likely saying is, "If the point of the movie is to show kids stepping up and being brave and heroes and finding yourself (or whatever it really is), and the movie isn’t about race, then why does it matter if characters are changed from PoC to white?"
to me, it’s kind of a question asked in reverse. A movie starring an entirely PoC cast doesn’t make it “about” race. But when those characters are intentionally switched to other races — presumably for the perceived comfort of the audience — that is what makes the decision about race, and therefore discussion of the movie is about race.
If white Americans as a whole were truly as comfortable with race as they believe they are, this sort of choice — which happens fairly frequently — would seem strange. Like if race is completely besides the point of the film then why do film companies always need to add white characters to any and every cast?? Why does a movie set in India, about Indians, end up with an american white man taking up most of the space in ads for the movie? etc.
By asking this, I don't mean to sound ignorant and I also don't mean to sound insensitive, but... Why does race have to effect the plot of the story? Like why can't the story be the same, and teach the same lesson? I'm a white American and I wouldn't be upset if disney made an entire movie with people of a different race. But the more I think about it, the more I understand what the argument is. I'm sorry if I'm coming across rude or offensive to anyone.
maybe this is just not my week but I don’t actually understand what you’re talking about? "Why does race have to effect the plot of the story?" I mean… good question? Why does it? I’m not sure what this is referring to — is there an example you’re semi-referencing or ??
"the more I understand what the argument is"
what argument… which side?? what
Have you seen the Sofia the First episode where Sofia learns about Flying Derby? It's supposed to be just a boy thing, but she decides to try out for the team anyway, and both her parents are supportive, even if the other kids don't. And there's a You Can Be Anything song and it's all super inspiring and cute. Thought you'd like to know (:
yes… I think that was one of the ones reviewed in my Sofia the First review?
Not to be a bummer but my reaction was more “meh”
The criticism that Frozen receives in regard to white-washing etc is completely valid, but I always wonder why so many people get so angry about it, but seem to give Tangled a pass, when I would have thought it's guilty of the same things. Can I have your thoughts on this?
well, I would say there are three main reasons I can see
the first is that it’s not really happening to the extent you think it’s happening. I have run this blog for like… 3 years or so? now? And I’ve now had this question asked with movies on both sides. One year someone will say, “why is everyone complaining about X in Brave?” A year later, “Why did no one mention this with Brave, yet it’s all they talk about with the newer movie?” AKA, part of it is just perspective: newer movies are, logically, discussed more than older movies, and we either weren’t a part of, or forget, older discussions.
the second thing is that, while Tangled did well, Frozen was by far the larger movie in terms of people watching, cultural discussion of the movie as a whole, and $$. It’s not just race that gets talked about more… it’s everything gets talked about more.
the third thing is that part of the issue with exclusion is that exclusion becomes more apparent with each movie you release, when they do the same thing. One movie featuring an all white cast is eyebrow raising, but not as eyebrow raising as multiple high profile movies doing the same thing nearly sequentially. Frozen can reference back to Tangled and others, and those conversations, in this way.
I'm reading through your film reviews (which are awesome btw!) and one thing I didn't see mentioned in the Jungle Book review was Shere Khan's queer coding which kind of slapped me in the face even watching as a kid. The same of Kaa, to perhaps a lesser extent.
yeah, I re-read the Jungle Book “review” and it was definitely pre- really having defined reviews on my part. I definitely get what you’re saying
On Big Hero 6, I wonder, if it was a comic with an entirely black cast and for the adaptation they decided to change some of the characters into Asians or native Americans, would the reaction be any different?
I’m not sure where you’re going with this, TBH
While all of us can celebrate the return of the charmingly geeky, super enthusiastic field trip champion, Ms. Frizzle’s renewed presence in American living rooms is especially important for women and girls. That’s because, despite Ms. Frizzle’s unstoppable energy and daring thirst for adventure, real-world examples of her character — women who rock the science field — are lacking.